>> afghanistan. >> oh, afghanistan. i think we are trying to disengage. that is a sensible policy. i don't think we should proclaim to stay there and win and create a modern afghanistan, i think that has been abandoned. >> i don't think we should pack our bags and just leave. the president is striving at a departure. reinforced by an international umbrella that is yet to be shaped, a kind of regional consensus and in effect, create a situation with the problem of afghanistan, which is also the problem of pakistan, becomes a regional problem in which the country's in the region have a stake in solving and are not -- there's a reasonable chance that can be pulled off. >> dr. brzezinski, you mentioned pakistan. the focus of policy leaders. turning away from afghanistan, we got reports the journalist who was killed by the isi inside pakistan further out is complicating our relationship with that group. we announced going in to kill osama bin laden. how do we manage this relationship that's been difficult to manage for as far as the eye can see? >> well, first of all, we have to recogni